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Intro — The Emails

June 1, 2008 — 1 Comment

Here is a friendly email exchange between me and one of my good friends.  Shows how people can be eye to eye on so many things and go the toe on others.  All in the spirit of fun and discussion

Posting it just to have it out there in the world — if anyone actually reads it – well maybe it can stir up some thought.

In just one year. Remember the election in 2006? Thought you might like to read the following:
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it! ;
Remembe r it’s Congress that makes law, taxes and spends, not the President. He has to work with what’s handed to him.
Quote of the Day……..’My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you’ll join with me as we try to change it.’ — Barack Obama
Part 2:
Taxes…Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing. w/151.html
Taxes under Clinton 1999
Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K – tax $8,400
Single making 30K – tax $4,500
Single making 50K – tax $14,000
Single making 50K – tax $12,500
Single making 75K – tax $23,250
Single making 75K – tax $18,750
Married making 60K – tax $16,800
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K – tax $21,000
Married making 75K – tax $18,750 11%
Married making 125K – tax $38,750
Married making 125K ⤒ tax $31,250 20%
Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates.
It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can’t wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don’t even know what happened.
You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much?
Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL’s for verification of all the following facts.
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. Verify at:
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at:http://www.cisorg/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at:
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at:
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at:
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at:
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. Verify at:
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US< FONT face=Verdana color=black size=2>
Verify at: http://transcri
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report:
12. The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’
Verify at:
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at:
14. ‘The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.’
Verify at:
The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
Are we THAT stupid?
If this doesn’t bother you then just delete the message. If, on the other hand, if it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you forward it to every legal resident in the country including every representative in Washington, D.C. – five times a week for as long as it takes to restore some semblance of intelligence in our policies and enforcement thereof.
Tell all of your friends, and if you know any, the Democrats that will listen

Well — I probably should delete this – -but what the hell —

Curious who wrote this — but it needs a rebuttal – even if it’s an amateur one from one such as me.

Part 1)
A little over a year ago …. actually for many of the past years …. the banking industry went a bit nuts and came up with every scam and cram way to stuff more money in their pockets. It was obvious to any who looked that a LOT of people were living above their means. Of course this system broke — it was unregulated and dishonorable. Blaming our economic wows on things that could even possibly have been voted on since 2006 is ludicrous. Economies are big brush items that swing back and forth over multiple years, not months.

Blaming the democratic congress of the past 18 months for our economic woes are akin to blaming old age on the fact that you had your 80th birthday, not that you have lived for 80 years.

Part 2)

I hate paying tax more then the next person I’m sure of that.

However, Bush cut taxes yes — but look at the %’s –
– 11% Cut for the couple earning 75k — that’s $2250
– 20% for the couple earning 125k — that’s $7,500

Shouldn’t the family who is making less save more then the family that is earning more? It may be a bit of Robin hood thinking — but those with more should pay a larger part – especially when you consider the way history has set up society with the wealthy staying wealthy and the poorer struggling to get wealthy. Governments job is to help ALL the people, not just the top.

Part 3)
——- First off Apples & Oranges

What does illegal immigration have to do with the iraq war?

Why not compare either to the 61 billion spent on oil aid? ( (and you can insert your own iraq war joke here :-) Or the billions in farm handouts that are destabilizing the world market? (;

“Through a complicated and overlapping system of government-sponsored insurance, counter-cyclical assistance, disaster aid and legacy payments tied to nothing, the five-year, $307 billion bill lavishes cash on wealthy farm households, the main restriction on collecting it being a means test that applies to couples making more than $1.5m a year. And even that can be avoided by employing a reasonably competent accountant.” –

or the 3 billion a year on cotton subsidies that keep developing nations poor and land that could be put to better use churning out cotton?

I can make my own list of government junk to outspend the war too — they both still have nothing to do with one another. I say if we took the same 500 billion (much of it from the pockets of the presidents cronies) and used it to smartly build infrastructure, schools & hospitals in the middle east we would all feel WAY safer today. The terrorists are coming from the poor and disenfranchised – all killing them does is make more of them. More poor, more broken schools, more broken homes, more broken bones.

——- Second — does the $522 billion spent on the iraq war make you feel ANY safer? I know it doesn’t make me feel any safer. (oh — here’s a link for you —

——- Third — as many seem to have forgotten – it is the immigrants that have made this country strong. I am of the belief that our suppression of the immigrants is hurting us more then helping us. Beyond that highly debatable point, I’ll throw in another — how is that someone has the right to say “thou shall not walk south past this point. Yes I know there is food there and you are hungry, but no it is not for you” this kind of thinking makes us just like the animals we are — if humanity is ever to transcend into a truly great being, we need to move beyond the same territorial squabbles of the baboons and the rest of the animal kingdom.

(yes i know that whole third statement is completely subjective — ignore it and the rest holds merit)

——- Fourth and last comes your math with the big bold statement ….

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR

When I do your math (quite fairly I think) I get 166.15 BIllion and find you over by 172.15 billion!

How do I get this from your list of figures?

#8 covers #’s 1-5 (and probably some of 6 & 7 as well as 1-5 only add up to 55.7. I’d check it, but the link is broken) – so,90 billion for all of 1-5

# 6 & #7 are back-ended questions — how many of these people are in jail BECAUSE they are illegal immigrants as opposed to them having done something wrong? And a corollary to this is that something is VERY wrong in this country when 1 in 100 people are in prison. But for the equation we’ll throw them in – they add up to 3 million a day = 1.15 billion

#9 – ok let’s say that ALL those jobs that are done by illegal aliens are done by poor americans (low wage labor) according to your bush tax cut rates if they make 30k / year (doubtful) wold be 15% tax. So that makes 30 billion dollars

#10 has nothing to do with this equation so I’ll ignore it further

#11 is also pointless — it is the citizens who are buying the drugs. Blame them.

#12 – is a hypothetical cost – so it also does not count

#13 – I’m not sure how this is a part of the equation – but if are thinking that these people should be better americans and not take their $ out of the country – so be it – 45 billion

So if I do the math I get — 90 + 1.15 + 30 + 45 = 166.15 Billion

so being generous I think by adding in the 45 billion. And I STILL don’t see the connection between illegal aliens and the war in iraq. Explain that one before you bother with all the other stuff.

Sorry I could not just delete this. I probably should have as democrats will win new york no matter what.

Remember folks who may have gotten – I’m lifelong independent – a card carrying member of NO POLITICAL PARTY!

Ummmm…. look again at the tax table…the wealthier ARE paying more tax! They always have paid more tax, therefore their tax cut is more- but they still pay more tax. Way more- maybe Jimmy knows the exact figure, but I believe the top 10% earners pay something like 75% of the total tax (sorry, don’t have time to look it up, but I know it’s something like that). Besides, fairness aside, a cut is a cut, and beats no cut at all.

ummmmm … I never stated that they weren’t paying more tax, just that they should pay more.

If 10% are paying 75% it shows the disparity between the have’s and have-nots.

I’m stating that the cuts for the wealthy are 20% while lower earners only get 10%. Why do the wealthier get bigger cuts?

Just because they are paying more doesn’t mean that should be cut a greater amount (especially when the additional dollars mean less as you get more of them

Well in reality the lowest 40% of earners pay $0- federal taxes.

Recently my neice graduated high school with a 4.0 GPA, she had worked very hard, studying, completing assignments, extra credit, never cut classes. She also scored a 1520 on her SAT. As a result she was accepted to Harvard Unsiversity. Her best friend was a bit of a goof off, didn’t complete assignments, cut classes, generally did not work hard in school. She finished with a 2.0 GPA and scored a 980 on her SAT. As a result, the only school she was able to get in to was a local community college.

But the new rules of fair and equitable distribution. You know the haves & have nots results in my neice having 1.0 of her GPA given to her friend so they both end up with a 3.0 and get accepted to the University of Illinois.

Now that is how redistribution of wealth should be explained.

LOL! good analogy — however ….

However MY niece went to private high school at Exeter while her friend was from the bronx and went to P.S. 93.

Both girls were equally bright, tried very hard, diligently did their homework, studied every night and listened to their teachers wisdom.

My niece at Exeter had a lovely live-in facility, 10 kids to a class and a lovely campus to work in. She was not distracted by the state of her neighborhood, neighbors or family. Her brain and body were stimulated daily and she flowered into a 4.0 GPA student and went on to harvard.

Her friend had to travel through the NY subway to get to school, was constantly harangued by thugs, her techer was overworked/underpaid and she had to worry about getting home in time to feed her sister as her mother worked late and she had no father. The combined stresses of school, home & environment eventually broke her down until she could not be successful in all three arenas. Family came first and she took a job to help feed her sister. While she was bright enough to have gone onto a better position in life, she was stuck working at the (insert crappy job here) to help pay the bills; and though she climbed the ladder at work to manager, that ladder only goes so high for someone of her socio-economic-educational background.

Once you flesh out the story, the plot-line gets a little bumpier :-)

And who’s talking about wealth distribution anyways? Get ready for this analogy ok — it’s a doozy, barely works and relies on the fact that you know that whole milk has 3% cream, Low-Fat 1.5% and skim 0% :-)

I’m saying if you take 1oz of cream from the whole milk it still has 2ozs left — If you take it from the Low-Fat it’s got .5% and the skim doesn’t even have enough to give. Even if you cut the amount you ask across the board — all your doing is giving the Whole & Low-Fat more cream to enjoy — the skim still doesn’t have any to give!


Not bad

1 name is all I need

Chris Gardner

But I will continue

Horatio Alger

Og Mandino

I could go on and on.

I love ya Bro and we forever disagree on these things one thing I will say without a doubt in my mind.

Anyone who sets out the hope that Government is the answer to their problems is in for a lifetime of unanswered problems.

You made one other point that was of great interest to me in your first reply, it was something along the lines of

“While Bush’s cronies made millions”

What company received more Government contracts from 1992 through 2000?

You guessed it, Haliburton, who was President? Clinton.

Point of this whole e-mail is and has been that Bush is an easy target but people refuse to look at certain facts b/c they get in the way of the argument.

Since GWB was elected, India & China have tripled their oil demand. Since the 1970’s when Hollywood was screaming no nukes, France has gone 85% Nuclear.

We could go on forever and you know what, we would both be right and we would both be wrong. In the end, until “We the people” decide that Government is not the answer, this great republic will flounder.

don’t know — yeah Chris Gardner et al may be role models — but judging the millions by the couple isn’t really fair. It’s like saying well John Washington should be in the MBL because Manny Ramirez is. It doesn’t work like that.

I don’t think we’re thinking that the government is the answer to the problems via handout — the government is the answer to the problems by way of curbing runaway corperate & banking mentality and providing quality infrastructure for ALL citizens.

Look at the nordic countries — highest taxes in the world AND highest quality of life. (

And yes — Clinton is a crook too — that also isn’t the debate :-)
I’m not arguing Republican v Democrat


just watched this on your boy …

pretty funny stuff ..

and I was thinking about this argument that you put forth below — the Chris Gardner arguement —

I would refute that with the name “Michael Jordan”

citing 1 or 2 exceptional people has nothing to do with the masses. You might have well have said — we don’t need to do anything because if they really wanted to, and tried hard enough those people could make the NBA.

Not everyone is smart enough, has enough inner drive, have the environment, have the competition to drive them, etc … life for the average person doesn’t work like that.